Universal DH may be coming.

Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby WheelsFellOff » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:09 pm

I don't like it because it doesn't feel like baseball to me. I probably would have felt the same when football players stopped playing both sides of the ball or when special teams were introduced but those came before me so they're fine. It ultimately won't matter to anyone who starts watching now, but I don't care. I'll miss those moments like Game 4 Blanton, or Robert Person's 7RBI game, or Doc's #$!&@ grin when he'd lay down a great sac bunt.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby heyeaglefn » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:26 pm

I think the younger crowd likes it where the older crowd probably doesn't, so it is probably a good move to make younger fans happy.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Bill McNeal » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:28 pm

I don’t really care all that much one way or the other, but it’s stupid to have half the teams use it and half not. It should be the same in both leagues and since there’s no way they’re getting rid of it in the AL, then the NL should use it too.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby MattFoley » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:32 pm

momadance wrote:
Slowhand wrote:Tired of seeing automatic outs when pitchers bat. Bring on the DH.




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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby joboggi » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:23 pm

I think 2020. They will start talking up Bohm for DH.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Slowhand » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:06 pm

I think a bigger reason for me to favor this, besides the nearly automatic out that it is now, is that we may see more complete games, or at least pitchers going deeper into games. It's frustrating during, for example, a 1-0 or 2-1 game where the starting pitcher is cruising to have them taken out in the 7th inning for a pinch hitter because they need more runs.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby PSUPhilliesPhan » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:22 pm

Slowhand wrote:I think a bigger reason for me to favor this, besides the nearly automatic out that it is now, is that we may see more complete games, or at least pitchers going deeper into games. It's frustrating during, for example, a 1-0 or 2-1 game where the starting pitcher is cruising to have them taken out in the 7th inning for a pinch hitter because they need more runs.


100% this. I do like the strategy that comes with a pitcher hitting but the benefits far outweigh it. It's like seeing a band play that has an awesome drummer. However, every concert he has to sing a couple of songs and he sucks at singing. Just let the dude play the drums!
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby swishnicholson » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:25 pm

Slowhand wrote:I think a bigger reason for me to favor this, besides the nearly automatic out that it is now, is that we may see more complete games, or at least pitchers going deeper into games. It's frustrating during, for example, a 1-0 or 2-1 game where the starting pitcher is cruising to have them taken out in the 7th inning for a pinch hitter because they need more runs.


Well, I mean the AL averaged 2 complete games while the NL averaged 1, so I don't think you're going to see much of an uptick. And while the pitchers' OBP of .144 is not good compared to the overall MLB average of .318 it's not an automatic out. And since NL teams only actually averaged 280 ABs by pitchers, due to the use of pinch hitters, it really only mean you're seeing about 50-60 more outs over the course of entire season that you would be seeing if a "position" player were filling the role.

I've lived in NL and AL cities and followed the team and the presence or absence of the DH hasn't had much if any impact on my enjoyment of the game. I admit I see the non-DH as the original, and no need whatsoever to change it, plus I do like the strategic elements it adds to the game. Do think it needs to be standardized, and it does look like the presence of the DH is unavoidable. doesn't mean I have to like it,
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby azrider » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:31 pm

are games in the AL shorter than the NL?

an old article where it proved to be the same, but the time value of seeing actual baseball being played versus a pitching change would certainly negate any advantage the NL may have, which i almost certainly don't think it does.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-the-dh-rule-bane-of-baseball-purists-slowing-the-game-down/

personally i prefer the pitcher to hit but i am all for and support the greater good for the game moving forward.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby lethal » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:42 pm

Bill McNeal wrote:I don’t really care all that much one way or the other, but it’s stupid to have half the teams use it and half not. It should be the same in both leagues and since there’s no way they’re getting rid of it in the AL, then the NL should use it too.


This is my feeling too.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Uncle Milty » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:49 pm

Let's reverse it. Get rid of designated pitchers and make all position players pitch an inning.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Gimpy » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:05 pm

Uncle Milty wrote:Let's reverse it. Get rid of designated pitchers and make all position players pitch an inning.


Volleyball style rotations for players in between innings? I’m all about this idea.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby D2S » Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:09 pm

The AL has had an advantage due to paying for players to specifically hit. I mean, I remember Doug Glanville DHing once for us. But also consider this...

https://www.mlb.com/news/charlie-morton ... -174865962
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby thephan » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:13 pm

Gimpy wrote:
Uncle Milty wrote:Let's reverse it. Get rid of designated pitchers and make all position players pitch an inning.


Volleyball style rotations for players in between innings? I’m all about this idea.


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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby heyeaglefn » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:18 pm

MLB people seem to think it won't happen until after 2021 if it ever happens.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/02/ ... jects.html
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Uncle Milty » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:24 pm

Gimpy wrote:
Uncle Milty wrote:Let's reverse it. Get rid of designated pitchers and make all position players pitch an inning.


Volleyball style rotations for players in between innings? I’m all about this idea.

Love this idea. Mo Vaughn at SS is exactly what Red Sox and Mets fans deserved.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Grotewold » Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:11 pm

lethal wrote:
Bill McNeal wrote:I don’t really care all that much one way or the other, but it’s stupid to have half the teams use it and half not. It should be the same in both leagues and since there’s no way they’re getting rid of it in the AL, then the NL should use it too.


This is my feeling too.


+1
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Wolfgang622 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:52 pm

Gimpy wrote:
Uncle Milty wrote:Let's reverse it. Get rid of designated pitchers and make all position players pitch an inning.


Volleyball style rotations for players in between innings? I’m all about this idea.


This is a quietly brilliant idea.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby Philly the Kid » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:49 pm

As an old timer, I do miss certain things - but so many other things have changed. The business of pro sports is so different than when I was a kid going to Connie Mack Stadium.

I agree, both leagues should be the same whatever they do. And over the years, I've come to lean in the direction of DH for NL as well. I like that a guy with bad knees or gained some weight, but who is a fine hitter can extend his career. I like both leagues doing things the same way. I like that a guy who is slightly dinged up but can swing the bat doesn't have to be on disabled list or ride the bench. I like that its another way to get certain guys some ABs, to keep them sharp or get experience or whatever...

If there was still no inter-league play, maybe I'd side with keeping it as it is. If each league had its own attributes. But at this point now, having two leagues doesn't mean much. Divisions have gotten smaller and smaller.

I've posted this many times including way back in 2004 when I fist joined PhilaPhans

My changes for MLB:

4 Leagues

National, American, Federal, Liberty

National = original 8 National:

Phillies
Giants
Dodgers
Reds
Cardinals
Cubs
Pirates
Braves

American = original 8 American

Athletics
Yanks
BoSox
White Sox
Indians
Tigers
Twins (Senators)
Orioles (Browns)

Federal = first 8 expansion

Metropolitans
Angels
Nationals (Expos)
Padres
Astros (Colt 45s)
Rangers (Nationals)
Brewers (Pilots)
Royals

Liberty = last 8 expansion (add 2 more for 32)

Rays
Diamonbacks
Rockies
Mariners
Blue Jays
Marlins
New Team (Vegas) (Portland) (Nashville)
New Team (San Juan) (Havana)

Go back to 154 game season.
Go back to 3-4 double-headers a season.
This helps the season not drag on so long, and gives a few more days off for the players.

2 approaches to playoffs, pure and more-likely

Pure - is 4 Leagues 4 Pennants - win the pennant or sit

4 becomes 2 becomes 1

More likely:

4 Penant Winners get a bye

2nd and 3rd in each league face off - winner plays 1st - then proceed.

This means top 3 in each league make the playoffs. That's 12 teams as we sort of have now.

Weighted schedules where you mostly play your own League - and then a smattering of games with teams in other leagues which might rotate over a period of years, sort of like now.

Many things are preserved:

Yanks and Redsox
Dodgers and Giants
White Sox and Tigers
Cardinals and Cubs
Phillies and Pirates

It's not regional groupings but each league has a smattering of Big Cities -

Seattle
Houston
NYC (Mets)
Miami
San Diego
Toronto
are 6 large cities not in the original 16

It might give some smaller market clubs a better run.

Or - MBL could find some way to resort how they do business and bring in a CAP more like NFL or handle super-stars more like NBA. Someway to allow players to get paid, players to have some shots at free-agency, trades - but also not have guys moving all over all the time - and teams that can't afford losing all their young talent to Yankees.

Within this new layout - could be DH in 2 of the 4 leagues. Or every 5 years the League could decide by some vote of owners or whatever which way they want to roll. And then, as now, the home team is the rules you follow.

For every Carlton, Bob Gibson and Ken Brett, are as someone mentioned Randy Lerch and Larry Christianson and think of almost any reliever you know of, and most starters. Madison Baumgarder is the exception, not the rule.

I would also consider putting some limits on the shift. That is, the SS has to be between 2nd and 3rd and 2nd baseman has to be between 1st and 2nd.

If they really have technology that can call balls and strikes and adapt to the players stature - then keep the umps but let him hold a device that tells him balls and strikes and he remains for other ump needs. Buts its no longer a subjective eye thing with an ump and his personality and style of calling balls and strikes. Use replay when needed judiciously.

I think all of this could improve the game.

Or - keep it as-is but do some contraction. What would happen if 6 franchises were removed? Would the talent be much better on all the other remaining 24 clubs? Is that enough of a contraction that overall competition would improve?

Regardless, despite the loss of revenue, the sport would benefit from a return to 154. The season is just too long with the playoffs now. Even if you don't start playoffs til Oct 1st, players need a few days off.

If only Pennant winners could compete for WS, it would put a LOT of value on the Pennant.

The only true way to be fair is to adopt the NBA style and just forget divisions and the top X amount of teams make playoffs and 1st seed against last. If 3 of the best teams in baseball are all in the same division then that's a drag. But in olden times, that happened more than once. The top 3 teams in the AL might have been better than the top team in NL. It's just how it was.
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Re: Universal DH may be coming.

Postby CalvinBall » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:12 pm

Pretty embarrassing that all but two or three pitchers across the league can hit. They can only do half the sport they make a living playing.
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