Halladay is on the block, fyi

Postby CrashburnAlley » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:58 pm

BigEd76 wrote:RealKen says Toronto wants Kershaw in any deal with the Dodgers


Ned Colletti may be stupid, but he ain't that stupid.
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Postby philliesphhan » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:00 pm

smitty wrote:
philliesphhan wrote:
smitty wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:
S2D wrote:Once you've had a WFC, the playoffs just seems pedestrian.


True, but you still have to enjoy it. If/when they win the division, it'll only be the second time in franchise history that they made the playoffs in 3 consecutive years...


Jeez. Remember when we went decades without winning anything?


Yes, I call that my childhood, minus 1993.


Me too. But it was a few decades earlier.


Speaking of which, I'm actually a little disappointed you're not way older than you actually are.
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Postby hoya » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:06 pm

BigEd76 wrote:RealKen says Toronto wants Kershaw in any deal with the Dodgers


I don't understand how something like that even makes it to rumor stage when Kershaw is clearly more valuable than Halladay.
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Postby mcare89 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:51 pm

BigEd76 wrote:RealKen says Toronto wants Kershaw in any deal with the Dodgers

I have to ask a stupid question here, and it's the only thing that makes me question the Halladay situation.

I know Drabek ≠ Kershaw, but what does on the Phillies?
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Postby FTN » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:54 pm

mcare89 wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:RealKen says Toronto wants Kershaw in any deal with the Dodgers

I have to ask a stupid question here, and it's the only thing that makes me question the Halladay situation.

I know Drabek ≠ Kershaw, but what does on the Phillies?


Nothing really.

He's Drabek's age (actually a few months younger), but has a year of big league experience. Hes lefthanded and throws very hard. His curveball is an out pitch. But he has control and command issues and is very inefficient with his pitches. He basically is a legit #1 based on projection but is pitching like a #5. Happ has much less projection, is pitching over his head, and is much older, but right now is getting better bottom line results.

The Phillies don't have a Kershaw equivalent.
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Postby mcare89 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:58 pm

FTN wrote:
mcare89 wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:RealKen says Toronto wants Kershaw in any deal with the Dodgers

I have to ask a stupid question here, and it's the only thing that makes me question the Halladay situation.

I know Drabek ≠ Kershaw, but what does on the Phillies?


Nothing really.

He's Drabek's age (actually a few months younger), but has a year of big league experience. Hes lefthanded and throws very hard. His curveball is an out pitch. But he has control and command issues and is very inefficient with his pitches. He basically is a legit #1 based on projection but is pitching like a #5. Happ has much less projection, is pitching over his head, and is much older, but right now is getting better bottom line results.

The Phillies don't have a Kershaw equivalent.

I know we don't have a singular equivalent, most teams don't, but what package would equate? Does Drabek+Taylor=Kershaw in JPR's mind?
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Postby HillMD » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:08 pm

If I'm the general manager of a baseball team, I wouldn't trade Kershaw for Drabek and Taylor. Kershaw has proven to be very effective at the major league level at the same age as Drabek and younger than Taylor.
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Postby VFB » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:20 pm

gillick to watch halladay tommorow:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/07/18/red- ... or-hallad/
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Postby mcare89 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:25 pm

HillMD wrote:If I'm the general manager of a baseball team, I wouldn't trade Kershaw for Drabek and Taylor. Kershaw has proven to be very effective at the major league level at the same age as Drabek and younger than Taylor.

That's the thing, if I'm Colletti, I'm not trading Kershaw for practically anybody, which is why I can't figure out why the Blue Jays insist on him from the Dodgers, yet would take a package for Halladay that if we offered the same to the Dodgers, probably wouldn't net us Kershaw.
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Postby JFLNYC » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:32 pm

mcare89 wrote:
HillMD wrote:If I'm the general manager of a baseball team, I wouldn't trade Kershaw for Drabek and Taylor. Kershaw has proven to be very effective at the major league level at the same age as Drabek and younger than Taylor.

That's the thing, if I'm Colletti, I'm not trading Kershaw for practically anybody, which is why I can't figure out why the Blue Jays insist on him from the Dodgers, yet would take a package for Halladay that if we offered the same to the Dodgers, probably wouldn't net us Kershaw.


Because Halladay makes $14MM and is on the market, while Kershaw makes $400K and is not.
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Postby mcare89 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:38 pm

JFLNYC wrote:
mcare89 wrote:
HillMD wrote:If I'm the general manager of a baseball team, I wouldn't trade Kershaw for Drabek and Taylor. Kershaw has proven to be very effective at the major league level at the same age as Drabek and younger than Taylor.

That's the thing, if I'm Colletti, I'm not trading Kershaw for practically anybody, which is why I can't figure out why the Blue Jays insist on him from the Dodgers, yet would take a package for Halladay that if we offered the same to the Dodgers, probably wouldn't net us Kershaw.


Because Halladay makes $14MM and is on the market, while Kershaw makes $400K and is not.

But then why would the Blue Jays even demand Kershaw then? Is it just more posturing, or do they really think they can/should get Kershaw?
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Postby FTN » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:38 pm

mcare89 wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:
mcare89 wrote:
HillMD wrote:If I'm the general manager of a baseball team, I wouldn't trade Kershaw for Drabek and Taylor. Kershaw has proven to be very effective at the major league level at the same age as Drabek and younger than Taylor.

That's the thing, if I'm Colletti, I'm not trading Kershaw for practically anybody, which is why I can't figure out why the Blue Jays insist on him from the Dodgers, yet would take a package for Halladay that if we offered the same to the Dodgers, probably wouldn't net us Kershaw.


Because Halladay makes $14MM and is on the market, while Kershaw makes $400K and is not.

But then why would the Blue Jays even demand Kershaw then? Is it just more posturing, or do they really think they can/should get Kershaw?


They're just trying to ask for as much possible. Cant blame them.
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Postby JFLNYC » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:40 pm

What Floppy said.
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Postby traderdave » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:05 pm

FTN wrote:
mcare89 wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:RealKen says Toronto wants Kershaw in any deal with the Dodgers

I have to ask a stupid question here, and it's the only thing that makes me question the Halladay situation.

I know Drabek ≠ Kershaw, but what does on the Phillies?


Nothing really.

He's Drabek's age (actually a few months younger), but has a year of big league experience. Hes lefthanded and throws very hard. His curveball is an out pitch. But he has control and command issues and is very inefficient with his pitches. He basically is a legit #1 based on projection but is pitching like a #5. Happ has much less projection, is pitching over his head, and is much older, but right now is getting better bottom line results.

The Phillies don't have a Kershaw equivalent.


I have to disagree with the assessment that Kershaw is "pitching like a #5". The guy is 7-5 with a 3.16 ERA and a strikeout per inning. He is obviously still trying to rein in his stuff but he hasn't allowed an earned run in four of his last six starts and has allowed three or less in 11 straight. I would argue that even with his control issues he is already a #1 and as great as Halladay is there is no way I would include Kershaw in a deal if I were the Dodgers.
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Postby FTN » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:08 pm

Kershaw has been kind of lucky. 59 BB in 99 IP is a recipe for disaster. His 5.7% HR/FB is very fortunate, but part of that is his park. His K numbers are fine, but his GB% is down as well this year, which coupled with his HR rate, indicates hes been kind of fortunate.

Hes pitched better than a #5, so I was a bit off there, but he has fairly substantial control issues, and if he pitched his home games in a more neutral park, I think it would reflect that in his ERA.

Hes definitely legit, he'll be a great starter, but hes not quite there yet.
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Postby HillMD » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:18 pm

mcare89 wrote:
HillMD wrote:If I'm the general manager of a baseball team, I wouldn't trade Kershaw for Drabek and Taylor. Kershaw has proven to be very effective at the major league level at the same age as Drabek and younger than Taylor.

That's the thing, if I'm Colletti, I'm not trading Kershaw for practically anybody, which is why I can't figure out why the Blue Jays insist on him from the Dodgers, yet would take a package for Halladay that if we offered the same to the Dodgers, probably wouldn't net us Kershaw.

Perhaps Colletti had an affair with Ricciardi's wife. No, but really, I doubt that report is true, or that it's just typical negotiating where you make some outrageous offer as your first and then gradually make ends meet.
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Postby philliesphhan » Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:35 pm

VFB wrote:gillick to watch halladay tommorow:

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/07/18/red- ... or-hallad/


Yes yes, please use your Toronto connection to help swing this deal
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Postby Bucky » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:30 pm

yeah i imagine the scouts need to go look at this halleeday kid to see if he's everything he's made out to be
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Postby Trent Steele » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:25 am

#jays gm jp ricciardi, baseball's busiest man, just told me he pegs chances for a halladay trade at "50-50.''


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Postby JFLNYC » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:28 am

I'm figuring he keeps saying 50/50 because if Rube includes Drabek it's on, otherwise it's off.
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