Halladay V - Final Destination

Postby smitty » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:46 pm

MattS wrote:
FTN wrote:So ESPN's numbers are off by a huge margin.

How does that happen? Are your numbers you are using counting in pop flies? Because all air outs need to be counted


i think it might include line drives. removing pop flies would make the groundball/flyball ratio go up. they look too low to me.


It does include line drives it looks like. Regardless, there are 116 pitchers who have thrown 80 or more innings in MLB. Lee ranks 54th in GB/FB ratio and Hamels is 78th. Lee is in the upper half of pitchers in this category. He doesn't look like an extreme fly ball pitcher.
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Postby cshort » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:46 pm

lowcountry wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:According to Gordon Edes

The Angels did indeed make a run at Halladay, offering Jered Weaver(notes) plus the Blue Jays’ pick of outfield or infield prospects, including Brandon Wood(notes), but it wasn’t enough.


So either Gordon Edes or J.P. Ricciardi has no clue WTF is going on.

Or both.
I think it's BS. Why wouldn't JPR make that trade?
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Postby FTN » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:48 pm

Its just crappy for us because no one really knows. If other teams are legitimately interested then Rube is playing with fire. If interest is minimal, hes still playing with fire because Ricciardi might just hold him.

I get the feeling none of the beat writers or national guys really know. I wish Halladay would come out and say he'll only consent to a trade to the Phillies
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Postby Squire » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:55 pm

I'm really not that hung up on getting/not getting Halladay. We're going to the playoffs and after that, playoff outcomes are generally random. I'll be pretty pleased with any outcome that does not have Halladay on the Dodgers.

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Postby 702 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:59 pm

4:54pm: FOX Sports reports that the Red Sox remain in the mix for Halladay as well, and the Jays have made a multiple-prospect proposal in recent days. The Jays still prefer not to deal within the division, however.
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Postby S2D » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:01 pm

cshort wrote:
lowcountry wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:According to Gordon Edes

The Angels did indeed make a run at Halladay, offering Jered Weaver(notes) plus the Blue Jays’ pick of outfield or infield prospects, including Brandon Wood(notes), but it wasn’t enough.


So either Gordon Edes or J.P. Ricciardi has no clue WTF is going on.

Or both.
I think it's BS. Why wouldn't JPR make that trade?


Exactly why I don't believe it. Jered Weaver (alone), arguably, has more value to both LA and Toronto than Halladay right now. We've already heard reports saying the Angels won't trade anyone off their major league roster, so how does that offer make any sense for the Angels? They need both Halladay and Weaver on their team to make a run at the World Series.

Boston is really the biggest competitor to us right now, because they can trump any of our offers in a second, and easily replenish what ever they give up. If Ricciardi got them to offer Bard/Buchholz, we'd really have no way of beating that. And they could still probably get the bat they're looking for.
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Postby Trent Steele » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:02 pm

I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:03 pm

Would everyone just relax? Halladay will be a Phillies by Friday at the latest. We'll probably have won 4 more games by then. These are good times.
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Postby FTN » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:04 pm

Exactly

why even make a counter offer like that unless your intention was to piss them off?
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:04 pm

Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


Taylor is better than anyone the Mets have.
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Postby Trent Steele » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:05 pm

mozartpc27 wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


Taylor is better than anyone the Mets have.


You may be right. You may be wrong. Some might like F-Mart more considering he's 4 years younger. Either way, there's not a big difference in those packages
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Postby Grotewold » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:08 pm

Trent Steele wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


Taylor is better than anyone the Mets have.


You may be right. You may be wrong. Some might like F-Mart more considering he's 4 years younger. Either way, there's not a big difference in those packages


That Halladay would actually come to the Phillies is kind of a big thing.
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Postby S2D » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:08 pm

Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


I didn't think it was THAT bad of an offer except for Carrasco being in it, but I also don't buy that Ricciardi is fielding all these calls, rejecting offers like Wood and Weaver, etc. like the press is saying. Christ, we had Shapiro whining the other day about every team guarding their prospects like gold. That tells me the market has been tepid for sellers so far.

If they replaced Carrasco with Marson, that gives the Jays (potentially) four starters next season. I'd even give them Gose if that wasn't enough, and it's a pretty good offer.
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Postby Trent Steele » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:11 pm

Grotewold wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


Taylor is better than anyone the Mets have.


You may be right. You may be wrong. Some might like F-Mart more considering he's 4 years younger. Either way, there's not a big difference in those packages


That Halladay would actually come to the Phillies is kind of a big thing.



That has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

Maybe Rube is right and there is nothing else out there being offered for Halladay. Maybe the reports of other teams' interest is all BS. If so, then he is playing it correctly. If not, I'm skeptical about this getting done
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Postby Grotewold » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:12 pm

It's pretty hard to know what to believe, or not, from where I'm sitting. Until that changes I'm not gonna hail or kill Amaro.
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Postby Trent Steele » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:13 pm

S2D wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


I didn't think it was THAT bad of an offer except for Carrasco being in it, but I also don't buy that Ricciardi is fielding all these calls, rejecting offers like Wood and Weaver, etc. like the press is saying. Christ, we had Shapiro whining the other day about every team guarding their prospects like gold. That tells me the market has been tepid for sellers so far.

If they replaced Carrasco with Marson, that gives the Jays (potentially) four starters next season. I'd even give them Gose if that wasn't enough, and it's a pretty good offer.


Well, they asked for the Phils No. 1. and No. 2 prospects. We responded with our No. 3, maybe the No. 5 (and dropping like a stone), and a guy who is not even in the top 10 anymore. That's fine if no one comes over the top of you
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Postby FTN » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:15 pm

The suckiest thing is that you know this is going right down to the 31st at 4PM

do you have to let it linger? Do you have to? Do you have to? Do you have to let it linger?
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Postby S2D » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:18 pm

Trent Steele wrote:
S2D wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:I think it's foolish to believe you are the only bidder for the best pitcher in baseball, but (if these reports are accurate) that's how the Phillies are acting.

I mean, seriously, is an offer of Happ, Taylor, Carrasco, Donald all that much better than the fugazi Mets trade offer we all laughed about?


I didn't think it was THAT bad of an offer except for Carrasco being in it, but I also don't buy that Ricciardi is fielding all these calls, rejecting offers like Wood and Weaver, etc. like the press is saying. Christ, we had Shapiro whining the other day about every team guarding their prospects like gold. That tells me the market has been tepid for sellers so far.

If they replaced Carrasco with Marson, that gives the Jays (potentially) four starters next season. I'd even give them Gose if that wasn't enough, and it's a pretty good offer.


Well, they asked for the Phils No. 1. and No. 2 prospects. We responded with our No. 3, maybe the No. 5 (and dropping like a stone), and a guy who is not even in the top 10 anymore. That's fine if no one comes over the top of you


True, but exactly how far apart is Taylor from Drabek and Brown? It's not a huge drop off from one to the other. They might as well be ranked 1a, b,c.

None of the other second tier guys comes close to the top 3, but the Jays were asking for the moon with that offer anyway.
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Postby lightsout54 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:18 pm

Well, they asked for the Phils No. 1. and No. 2 prospects. We responded with our No. 3, maybe the No. 5 (and dropping like a stone), and a guy who is not even in the top 10 anymore. That's fine if no one comes over the top of you[/quote]


you may be right about the prospects....but Happ makes it a MUCH better offer IMO
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Postby JFLNYC » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:20 pm

JFLNYC wrote:
As of Saturday night, the Angels were of the mind to remove themselves from the Roy Halladay(notes) talks, believing they were never going to come close to the Blue Jays’ asking price of Joe Saunders(notes), Erick Aybar(notes), Brandon Wood(notes) and a prospect such as outfielder Peter Bourjos.


Tim Brown, Yahoo Sports


I posted this this morning. I don't see where the Angels momentum on this board is coming from.
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