HALLADAY VIII: GUS IS SCRATCHNG LIKE A CHEAP JOHN

Postby Philly the Kid » Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:41 am

I do not see the Phils upping the payroll from 108mil (if that's the number now) to 130-140. I think there is virtually Zero chance of Halladay at this point, he's too expensive and 1 year then FA. And if Cliff Lee keeps up even close to what he's been doing, they won't consider it. Because stupidly they are stuck with Moyer similar to Eaton ... that limits them. Yes, Myers should go away and off books too but as pointed out a lot of people due for raises especially Victorino.

If the Phils repeat, that will dictate one set of moves.
If they make playoffs but don't repeat, that may dictate a somewhat different set of moves.

I'm not sure which scenario makes them spend more and be more aggressive. If they repeat, they may be addicted and the notion of 3-peat and mini-dynasty could drive them -- OR -- they could figure -- we just gave the fans more than any other generation of Phils fans -- back to back -- and they could start to try to save dough and project some younger guys coming up?

We know we're stuck with Moyer unless he retires. Hamels and Lee aren't going anywhere. The rest is unclear on SP.

Utley Howard Jroll Ibanez are virtually certain, Werth and Vic you would think so who knows.

Pete Happy is unknown as well.

Halladay may never leave Toronto now? They might just extend him. He's in his 30's been there what 11-12 years already? But -- maybe some Yankees Angels thing goes after him off-season anyway? His chance of being a Phillie is slim to none.
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Postby Woody » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:03 am

They're at ~$130 mil now
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?
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Postby Barry Jive » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:48 am

I like it when the initial premise of a PtK post is incorrect and invalidates every one of the following 3000 words immediately
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Postby philliesphhan » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:36 pm

:lol:
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Postby FTN » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:40 pm

With Lee here, trading for Halladay would make no sense, unless you can get rid of Moyer's 2010 obligation and end up on the hook for zero. Even then, it doesn't make sense.

Lee
Hamels
Blanton
Happ
(cheap 5th starter)

is better than paying Halladay almost 16M, plus giving up prospects to get him.

There are other spots on the roster that have to be addressed. We need two bench bats to replace Bruntlett and Stairs, and we need to patch up the bullpen. Plus you have to factor in all of the contract escalators/arb raises this winter which will offset the "savings" from Eaton, Jenkins and others being gone.
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Postby Philly the Kid » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:43 pm

Woody wrote:They're at ~$130 mil now


I thought someone said 108?
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Postby PTOITWCFTPP » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:44 pm

Philly the Kid wrote:
Woody wrote:They're at ~$130 mil now


I thought someone said 108?

Does that include the "dead" money of Eaton/Thome/Jenkins? I don't think so, hence the 130.
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Postby Philly the Kid » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:45 pm

Barry Jive wrote:I like it when the initial premise of a PtK post is incorrect and invalidates every one of the following 3000 words immediately


Well that's cool. I guess you showed me up again.

Guess what -- no Roy Halladay a Phillie -- that you can take to the bank.
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Postby kimbatiste » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:56 pm

Philly the Kid wrote:
Barry Jive wrote:I like it when the initial premise of a PtK post is incorrect and invalidates every one of the following 3000 words immediately


Well that's cool. I guess you showed me up again.

Guess what -- no Roy Halladay a Phillie -- that you can take to the bank.


Profound.
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Postby dajafi » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:26 pm

Barry Jive wrote:I like it when the initial premise of a PtK post is incorrect and invalidates every one of the following 3000 words immediately


So pretty much you're a huge fan of his whole oeuvre?
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Postby Woody » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:27 pm

Careful dajafi, you don't want to end up on the 'whatevs' list ...
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:08 pm

Philly the Kid wrote:
Woody wrote:They're at ~$130 mil now


I thought someone said 108?


I said $108.5M, referring to what they are on the hook for next year already. Actually, it's more like $109.5M, once you include Ben Francisco, which I forgot to do.
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Postby Philly the Kid » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:01 pm

Woody wrote:Careful dajafi, you don't want to end up on the 'whatevs' list ...


While Dajafi has soured on the kid, I still dig him -- he's been one of my favorite posters since the old site... i've told him so more than once... and to his credit, he's acknowledged that I've taken my perhaps unfair share of lobs, volleys and mud on the wall...

I apologize for not knowing the true amount of current payroll. That really wasn't the thrust of my comments which were ignored since I mis-read the 108 figure as the current one and was skipped over thereafter...

My point was mainly that what happens if we make it to and then, in the -- playoffs could influence a lot of what they do. If they win another WFC or if they don't, they could go either way. Decide they like being on top and keep increasing budget and making daring moves, OR, the reverse -- we've sated the phan base for a while now and can be more selective about who we sign and for how much.

Let's face it, they have so many talented players now achieving at a high level, you just can't retain them all forever. Hopefully they will be smart about when to deal which guy. Hopefully Ibanez won't be the next albatross...

On the issue of how high they'd let the payroll go and could Halladay fit in to it? I just don't see it. Why do a 1 year rental on Roy for 15mil? Especially if that pushes them in to 160mil territory.

Will Thome, Jenkins, Eaton, Myers, and Moyer all be off the books? Some, not all right? (not sure, sorry I didn't go check) And even-so, looks like a lot of guys get raises and or arbitration which they could win -- so how does Halladay fit in. Is there any precedence to see them get a Cliff Lee, retain Hamels, and Blanton AND go spend 15mil on a one year rental of Roy?

Just feels a bit unrealistic and pie in the sky.
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:43 am

I'd bet that Halladay will be a Dodger now. Maybe because I'm reading Plaschke's article summing up the NLCS for the Dodgers, but now it just seems that Frank McCourt will be bound and determined to get an ace for his pitching staff.
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Postby BassGuiFloyd » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:44 am

i have NO regrets getting Lee instead of Halladay. LEE 4 EVERRRR
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Postby Swiggers » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:21 am

mozartpc27 wrote:I'd bet that Halladay will be a Dodger now. Maybe because I'm reading Plaschke's article summing up the NLCS for the Dodgers, but now it just seems that Frank McCourt will be bound and determined to get an ace for his pitching staff.


Unless he uses his pending divorce as an excuse not to spend money. See also: Moores/divorce, Wilpon/Madoff.
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Postby steven snell » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:39 am

mozartpc27 wrote:I'd bet that Halladay will be a Dodger now. Maybe because I'm reading Plaschke's article summing up the NLCS for the Dodgers, but now it just seems that Frank McCourt will be bound and determined to get an ace for his pitching staff.


There are other Phillie pitching rejects for the dodgers to grab..
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:49 am

I'm not at all suggesting I'd rather have Halladay than Lee at this point, I'm just pointing out that we're pretty far inside the Dodgers' heads now. If this year they got George Sherrill for the express purpose of beating us because of what happened in 2008, how much more crazy will they be now that it happened again in 2009? I love these intra-division rivalries. You know Dodgers fans don't even hate the Giants as of this moment as much they hate us.
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Postby Woody » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:01 pm

With all the World Series money we're trading for Halladay, cause Ruben is a smug son of a bitch with a firm goddamn handshake
you sure do seem to have a lot of time on your hands to be on this forum? Do you have a job? Are you a shut-in?
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Postby JFLNYC » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:08 pm

Not only that, he's going to trade Vicente Padilla and Eric Valent to get him.
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