GDT 09/08/09: Here's the deal. I'm guaranteeing this mother

Postby JFLNYC » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:11 am

CBA:

D. Single Rooms on the Road

Each Player on a Club’s Active List (including disabled Players who travel with the Club) shall have single rooms in the Club’s hotels on all road trips during the Club’s championship season and post-season. Nothing herein shall prohibit the Clubs from making or continuing agreements with individual Players that provide more favorable arrangements for such Players.
Jamie

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Postby FTN » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:38 am

Pedro threw 119 pitches tonight.

Why?

Expanded rosters, there's no excuse to have him out there emptying all of his bullets against the f'ing Nationals.

His highest pitch count in 2008 was 116 on 9/20, which came one start after a 108 pitch appearance.

He made only 5 appearances in 2007, max was 105.

His max in 2006 was 110

Gotta go back to 9/16/05 for a higher pitch count game, when he threw 122 pitches against the Braves.
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Postby philliesphhan » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:23 am

He's also healthy for the first time in a while. His pitches in the 7th didn't look particularly stressful.
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Postby Bakestar » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:44 am

philliesphhan wrote:He's also healthy for the first time in a while. His pitches in the 7th didn't look particularly stressful.


Except for that cookie up in the zone to Willie Harris...
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:34 am

FTN wrote:Pedro threw 119 pitches tonight.

Why?

Expanded rosters, there's no excuse to have him out there emptying all of his bullets against the f'ing Nationals.

His highest pitch count in 2008 was 116 on 9/20, which came one start after a 108 pitch appearance.

He made only 5 appearances in 2007, max was 105.

His max in 2006 was 110

Gotta go back to 9/16/05 for a higher pitch count game, when he threw 122 pitches against the Braves.


I've got to agree; I was quite alarmed when I heard that number last night.
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Postby Doll Is Mine » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:49 am

Absolutely. No need to keep Pedro in the game at that point, even though, he did look fine.
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Postby Grotewold » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:58 am

If he put Durbin or Walker in, people would have been freaking out about that too

And Pedro doesn't strike me as a guy who'd be bashful about saying he needs out
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Postby Rev_Beezer » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:20 am

However, the 2003 season (and Little's entire tenure with the Red Sox) is mostly remembered for his controversial decision during Game 7 of the 2003 American League Championship Series against the New York Yankees. The Red Sox led the game 5–2 in the 8th inning, and were five outs away from reaching the World Series. Little visited the mound after starting pitcher Pedro Martínez gave up three straight hits, and a run from Derek Jeter, but he decided against taking out the ace pitcher.
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Postby FTN » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:47 am

Grotewold wrote:If he put Durbin or Walker in, people would have been freaking out about that too

And Pedro doesn't strike me as a guy who'd be bashful about saying he needs out


you really have to stop. please.
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Postby Grotewold » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:51 am

FTN wrote:
Grotewold wrote:If he put Durbin or Walker in, people would have been freaking out about that too

And Pedro doesn't strike me as a guy who'd be bashful about saying he needs out


you really have to stop. please.


Nah
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Postby FTN » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:06 am

you can only get so much mileage out of being the contrarian on every single issue
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Postby TenuredVulture » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:08 am

How about this: Pedro is a throw back pitcher to the days when starters completed their games and didn't worry about sissy things like pitchcounts.

And yes, we know that the abuse of pitchers arms in the old days shortened careers, but is that really a problem for Pedro at this point?
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Postby Grotewold » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:12 am

FTN wrote:you can only get so much mileage out of being the contrarian on every single issue


Say what now

I do maybe five baseball posts a week
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Postby smitty » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:37 pm

119 pitches is not a lot of pitches for a veteran. Young guys you have to be careful with. Look, from Bill James:

Most injuries to pitchers are not the result of chronic overuse; some are, particularly to young pitchers, but most are not. They’re catastrophic events, just like a heart attack or a torn muscle. They happen suddenly, and they happen when a pitcher goes outside the envelope of his previous conditioning.

Backing away from the pitcher’s limits too far doesn’t make a pitcher less vulnerable; it makes him more vulnerable. And pushing the envelope, while it may lead to a catastrophic event, is more likely to enhance the pitcher’s durability than to destroy it.


Here's more:

Steve Treder of the Hardball Times wrote an excellent comprehensive piece a while back, with loads of statistical analysis. His conclusion of pitch counts: “It is, in short, a policy that has delivered an extremely poor cost-benefit. Pitchers get hurt a lot; they always have, and 15 years into the era of significantly reduced workloads, they still do.”

“…that there’s a reasonable deployment of the tool, and there’s an unreasonable, counterproductive fixation upon it, and over the past decade and a half we’ve left the former behind and driven ourselves right into the latter.”


This is all good stuff and not a bit contrarian. It's merely a different and quite valid view of this issue.
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Postby Bakestar » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:51 pm

I don't think it's a veteran/rookie thing as much as it's a Pedro thing. He's historically shown a tendency to show reduced effectiveness pretty abruptly at about the 100 pitch mark.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:52 pm

We won
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Postby smitty » Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:59 pm

Bakestar wrote:I don't think it's a veteran/rookie thing as much as it's a Pedro thing. He's historically shown a tendency to show reduced effectiveness pretty abruptly at about the 100 pitch mark.


Has anyone ever studied that? For his career he has a .221 BAA and a .615 OPS against in 971 plate appearances. That compares pretty favorably with his numbers in all other pitch count ranges.
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