World Series 2009 Game 4 Thread: TONIGHT IS OUR NIGHT

Postby Bucky » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:35 am

Monkeyboy wrote:
Slowhand wrote:
Bucky wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:
Slowhand wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:Charlie blaming Ruiz and Lidge for that blown cover of 3rd


what'd he say?


He was asked whose fault it was and Charlie said that's normally the catcher's job, or the pitcher....


that's a lazy BS answer. Obviously they hadn't thought about that situation or discussed it because he would have had a singular answer. regardless, either way it's almost a physical impossibility, unless they work on a play with the pitcher breaking to third immediately upon knowing the runner is going. Which obviously has never before been seen in the history of baseball.


Yeah, realistically there was little chance either one of them would have been able to cover the bag. It's also a dumb thing to be pissed off about because Damon still scores from second.



I can see why it might be hard for Ruiz because he has to release the ball to 2B before running 90 feet to 3B, but Lidge should have no trouble getting the 64 feet to 3B ffrom the pitcher's mound when he could leave as soon as he saw damon going to 2B. Afterall, he doesn't need to get there, he just needs to get close enough to keep Damon from taking the base. I suspect Charlie was mad because he knew it was someone's responsibility. He's just protecting the person who had the responsibility.

But I'd like to see his PC, or at least hear why people said he sounded pissed. What did he say that sounded pissed?


no, two things wrong with that. #1, many pitchers (lidge among them) need recovery time after a pitch in order to turn into a fielder. #2, this is such a rare circumstance- shift on, runner stealing, throw to 2nd "behind" the runner (or bobbled I guess would be the more likely scenario) that is has never been defensed before. Has anyone ever seen a pitcher break for third on a play like this? We've seen our share with RyHo and even occassionaly Chase. But I've never seen defensive anticipation of a play at third. I'll eat my words if I hear a Phillie say they talked about doing that, but I'm pretty sure I won't have to.
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Postby swishnicholson » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:36 am

BigEd76 wrote:Lidge interview in the locker room

"Hopefully Cliff will give us a good game tomorrow and get us back to New York."

"I don't know who was supposed to cover third there....he's faster than I am....heads-up player...."


In a game of seemingly infinite mound conferences, it seems odd that this truly useful subject never came up for discussion.
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Postby CalvinBall » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:37 am

i agree bucky. ricky bo is pissed about it. i am starting not to like him, he needs to give these guys some credit. it is such a weird once in every 2,500 games circumstance that i just dont know.

i am willing to bet if this happened to ricky bo damon would have somehow scored. shut up dude.
Last edited by CalvinBall on Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mountainphan » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:39 am

The issue isn't about using Lidge in the 9th or Lidge/Ruiz not covering third. It's all about pitch selection and field positioning (in the 9th and other innings) that made no sense. The good news, fwiw, is since the playoffs started, Lidge continues to look like 2008 Lidge when he is mixing his pitches. I'm still confident in Lidge provided he and Ruiz learn something from tonight.

Whatever - it all adds up to one big gut punch that the Phils need to get over ASAP.
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Postby Slowhand » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:39 am

swishnicholson wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:Lidge interview in the locker room

"Hopefully Cliff will give us a good game tomorrow and get us back to New York."

"I don't know who was supposed to cover third there....he's faster than I am....heads-up player...."


In a game of seemingly infinite mound conferences, it seems odd that this truly useful subject never came up for discussion.


:lol:
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Postby CalvinBall » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:40 am

holy #$!&@ botalico just keeps saying "its that simple, its that simple." really dude? you #$!&@ suck.
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:40 am

Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.
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Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:41 am

Bucky wrote:
Monkeyboy wrote:
Slowhand wrote:
Bucky wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:
Slowhand wrote:
BigEd76 wrote:Charlie blaming Ruiz and Lidge for that blown cover of 3rd


what'd he say?


He was asked whose fault it was and Charlie said that's normally the catcher's job, or the pitcher....


that's a lazy BS answer. Obviously they hadn't thought about that situation or discussed it because he would have had a singular answer. regardless, either way it's almost a physical impossibility, unless they work on a play with the pitcher breaking to third immediately upon knowing the runner is going. Which obviously has never before been seen in the history of baseball.


Yeah, realistically there was little chance either one of them would have been able to cover the bag. It's also a dumb thing to be pissed off about because Damon still scores from second.



I can see why it might be hard for Ruiz because he has to release the ball to 2B before running 90 feet to 3B, but Lidge should have no trouble getting the 64 feet to 3B ffrom the pitcher's mound when he could leave as soon as he saw damon going to 2B. Afterall, he doesn't need to get there, he just needs to get close enough to keep Damon from taking the base. I suspect Charlie was mad because he knew it was someone's responsibility. He's just protecting the person who had the responsibility.

But I'd like to see his PC, or at least hear why people said he sounded pissed. What did he say that sounded pissed?


no, two things wrong with that. #1, many pitchers (lidge among them) need recovery time after a pitch in order to turn into a fielder. #2, this is such a rare circumstance- shift on, runner stealing, throw to 2nd "behind" the runner (or bobbled I guess would be the more likely scenario) that is has never been defensed before. Has anyone ever seen a pitcher break for third on a play like this? We've seen our share with RyHo and even occassionaly Chase. But I've never seen defensive anticipation of a play at third. I'll eat my words if I hear a Phillie say they talked about doing that, but I'm pretty sure I won't have to.



well, I think he had plenty of time to recover and run to 3B. He only had to go 64 feet, and really anywhere close to that would have stopped damon. Ruiz should have also had time to get there, but it would have been tougher for him because he had 90 feet and had to release the ball to 2B. As for the 2nd point, I think there is an assignment for pretty much every play in baseball at this level. It may be rare or unpracticed, but that was someone's responsibility. We've certainly seen Utley steal 2B with Ryan at the plate and someone is covering 3B on that play, or at least the SS covers the bag which frees the 3Bman to cover 3B. Someone messed up, imo.
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Postby jerseyhoya » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:42 am

mozartpc27 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.


Lidge stopped throwing sliders
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Postby CalvinBall » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:42 am

jerseyhoya wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.


Lidge stopped throwing sliders


this is true. i dont know why bc we got rid of chris coste months ago.
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Postby SideshowBob » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:43 am

mozartpc27 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.


It cost them the ability for Lidge to use his slider effectively. There's a good reason that Lidge has sucked with runners on and it's because he can't just throw fastballs and get good hitters out.
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Postby Monkeyboy » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:43 am

So what did charlie say that makes you guys say he was pissed? Just his tone, or was he complaining about bad play or what?
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Postby Slowhand » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:46 am

SideshowBob wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.


It cost them the ability for Lidge to use his slider effectively. There's a good reason that Lidge has sucked with runners on and it's because he can't just throw fastballs and get good hitters out.


You can't just stop throwing your best pitch because you have a runner on third. Especially when the batter is ARod. Ruiz rarely lets anything by him anyway. The risk is certainly there, but still you can't just groove fast balls to ARod because you fear a WP or PB and not expect him to hurt you.
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Postby Mountainphan » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:46 am

jerseyhoya wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.


Lidge stopped throwing sliders


Yes but he stopped throwing the slider during Damon's at-bat. A possible advantage to having Damon on third was that it allowed Lidge to throw from the wind-up, which he prefers. Of course then he had to go and plunk Texieira so...
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Postby hotch » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:49 am

CalvinBall wrote:
jerseyhoya wrote:
mozartpc27 wrote:Just got back from the game. Very sad. I guess I'll always have Pedro's awesome HR.

I don't understand why they are on about Damon's taking third in the ninth; that didn't cost them anything.


Lidge stopped throwing sliders


this is true. i dont know why bc we got rid of chris coste months ago.


lol. this is the first thing I've smiled at since Damon stole 2nd/3rd.
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:52 am

It was very disappointing to be there because at the beginning of the night the crowd was CLEARLY ready to be all over it/them/Sabathia, then they immediately yield two runs, making the crowd much quieter. Then, every time the Phils got the game tied, the pitchers gave it right back. And the worst thing was how Feliz hit that awesome awesome awesome HR that I will never forget - a hugging strangers kind of HR - and then lidge comes in and is awesome for two and a half hitters and you could feel things finally starting to turn our way, and then all the wheels come off at once. I actually saw a wheel come off a car right in front of me once on Lincoln Drive. it was like that.
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Postby Wolfgang622 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:52 am

I am only watching these highlights because I want to see Feliz's awesome HR.
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Postby CalvinBall » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:56 am

rollins took responsibility for for someone not being at 3rd. i dont know if it really was his fault but seriously this guy is the man for stepping up like that.
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Postby pianopop9 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:15 am

Warszawa wrote:
pianopop9 wrote:not a single $#@! reporter asked cholly why he went to lidge in the 9th.


just wondering but what were the other options?


I would have gone with Eyre.
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Postby pianopop9 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:16 am

Monkeyboy wrote:So what did charlie say that makes you guys say he was pissed? Just his tone, or was he complaining about bad play or what?


first question right off the bat was about if he should have pitched Lee on short rest to which Charlie responded "I've answered that 10 times already....in fact, 25 times. Next question".
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