Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:00 am

thephan wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:While we’re on the subject of taxes, does Trump not realize that if he gets rid of the mortgage interest deduction the housing market will go into a tailspin?


I have always expect that WHEN he maneuvers this, that there will be an offset that is unimaginably favorable to real estate investors where rental properties would offset any profit in some way. Some sort of mixed depreciation where any income derived was just pure profit, and there would be negligible taxation on the property itself, or some other mind numbing, self serving thing.

As to the pending implosion of the mortgage market for private, citizen owned property to house something like a family, aside from it not being anything that Donald and his ilk care about, YOU will have to stand up a company and transfer your assets to it to maximize you ability to survive in a somewhat normal context.

Depending on the insanity of the tax plan, that might be your best option anyway. You employer pays your private company which owns all your assets. Your stipend would pay out at a low level shielding you. Good plan, right.


Before you consider doing something like that you should consult your accountant and/or attorney. Putting your primary residence in a corporation is pretty much universally viewed as a bad idea. First, you’d have to pay transfer taxes. Second, your mortgage company could call the loan. Third, you’d lose any homestead and any other exemptions granted to certain classes of individuals. And you’d lose your capital gains exemption when you sell. Then there are other issues, e.g., having to pay rent to the corporation. If you pay too much, the corporation could make a profit, which would be taxable. If you pay too little, the IRS could consider the difference between rent actually paid and market value as taxable personal income to you.

People buy more expensive homes knowing they can deduct mortgage interest. If the deduction were reduced or eliminated, millions would pay more in taxes (any increase in the standard deduction wouldn’t cover the difference) and the value of all those homes would decrease significantly overnight.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:19 am

JFLNYC wrote:
People buy more expensive homes knowing they can deduct mortgage interest. If the deduction were reduced or eliminated, millions would pay more in taxes (any increase in the standard deduction wouldn’t cover the difference) and the value of all those homes would decrease significantly overnight.


This might be an interesting element in the politics here--people who live in "flyover country" mostly (I mean I haven't actually checked median home prices, but it's a sports message board) live in homes that are cheap enough they don't pay enough mortgage interest to itemize. So, if the standard deduction remains unchanged or goes up a bit, those homeowners won't see any loss from the mortgage interest tax deduction. When you throw in older people on the coasts who have either paid off their mortgage or are at the end of their mortgage payments and are basically paying down the principle, well, now you see how the politics could work.

Just checked median home price in Arkansas--114,000. Texas, 170k. CA--363k. So there you go.

And honestly, if it in fact does reduce home prices, that might actually help young people buy their first home.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:38 am

It’s no coincidence that blue, coastal states would take the greatest hit from a Republican tax reform proposal. As they say, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

I’m all for making it easier for younger people to buy a home. What’s holding them back is primarily wage stagnation and college debt. It would be preferable to address those issues. Taking away a significant portion of the wealth of older homeowners who have accumulated that wealth over many years seems like a particularly unfair and draconian way to address the issue.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Phred » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:40 am

JFLNYC wrote:It’s no coincidence that blue, coastal states would take the greatest hit from a Republican tax reform proposal. As they say, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

I’m all for making it easier for younger people to buy a home. What’s holding them back is primarily wage stagnation and college debt. It would be preferable to address those issues. Taking away a significant portion of the wealth of older homeowners who have accumulated that wealth over many years seems like a particularly unfair and draconian way to address the issue.


Now we are having a Republican party.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby thephan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:45 am

JFLNYC wrote:
thephan wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:While we’re on the subject of taxes, does Trump not realize that if he gets rid of the mortgage interest deduction the housing market will go into a tailspin?


I have always expect that WHEN he maneuvers this, that there will be an offset that is unimaginably favorable to real estate investors where rental properties would offset any profit in some way. Some sort of mixed depreciation where any income derived was just pure profit, and there would be negligible taxation on the property itself, or some other mind numbing, self serving thing.

As to the pending implosion of the mortgage market for private, citizen owned property to house something like a family, aside from it not being anything that Donald and his ilk care about, YOU will have to stand up a company and transfer your assets to it to maximize you ability to survive in a somewhat normal context.

Depending on the insanity of the tax plan, that might be your best option anyway. You employer pays your private company which owns all your assets. Your stipend would pay out at a low level shielding you. Good plan, right.


Before you consider doing something like that you should consult your accountant and/or attorney. Putting your primary residence in a corporation is pretty much universally viewed as a bad idea. First, you’d have to pay transfer taxes. Second, your mortgage company could call the loan. Third, you’d lose any homestead and any other exemptions granted to certain classes of individuals. And you’d lose your capital gains exemption when you sell. Then there are other issues, e.g., having to pay rent to the corporation. If you pay too much, the corporation could make a profit, which would be taxable. If you pay too little, the IRS could consider the difference between rent actually paid and market value as taxable personal income to you.

People buy more expensive homes knowing they can deduct mortgage interest. If the deduction were reduced or eliminated, millions would pay more in taxes (any increase in the standard deduction wouldn’t cover the difference) and the value of all those homes would decrease significantly overnight.


Only make sense if the tax code changes to something crazy. My accountant and I were what-iffing the 'how crazy could this be'. It is certainly not a now move, and I was by no means making a recommendation that people should explore this as a viable option. I think that current wealth threshold for this is like over $50M as viable. Only if corporations get all the benefits, and normal humans get all the screwing does it become of interests (and it is a way to save your friendly neighborhood accountant). So take no action now, just wait to see what happens next.

FWIW, if "you" (not sure who said it) think NAB is a powerful lobby, the mortgage bankers have superior horsepower to remain relevant, so I see no changes there. Its all scare tactics.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Soren » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:59 am

JFLNYC wrote:What’s holding them back is primarily wage stagnation and college debt.


Also entry level jobs being hard to come by. I benefited from a huge series of fortunate events (starting with being a SWM) otherwise I'd be working either two jobs or working 60 hr/week so I could afford to split a two bedroom apartment, pay college bills and go out to eat every now and again.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:05 am

Soren wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:What’s holding them back is primarily wage stagnation and college debt.


Also entry level jobs being hard to come by. I benefited from a huge series of fortunate events (starting with being a SWM) otherwise I'd be working either two jobs or working 60 hr/week so I could afford to split a two bedroom apartment, pay college bills and go out to eat every now and again.


If the mortgage interest deduction is eliminated or reduced, jobs for younger Americans will be even harder to come by as older Americans will be forced to remain in the workforce and postpone retirement.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Soren » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:18 am

I feel like I should know more about this than I do (which is nothing).
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby thephan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:10 pm

JFLNYC wrote:It’s no coincidence that blue, coastal states would take the greatest hit from a Republican tax reform proposal. As they say, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

I’m all for making it easier for younger people to buy a home. What’s holding them back is primarily wage stagnation and college debt. It would be preferable to address those issues. Taking away a significant portion of the wealth of older homeowners who have accumulated that wealth over many years seems like a particularly unfair and draconian way to address the issue.


Right, that "feature" was also made clear with the last go at healthcare. Punishing the economic engines of the country is a bizarre priority, except that it is a feel good for the interior "base". Clearly I am biased living in the mid-Atlantic, so I am a target of these types of legislation, but what is the gain? There is a whiff of oligarchy to this where the poor remain poor, and the possible, nominal competition is reconciled.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby thephan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:24 pm

The Donald has opened up in his twitter war, refocusing his attacks on Puerto Rico, and drawing in the Governor who is reminding him that they are US citizens.

Any idea if USVI still exists?
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby slugsrbad » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:28 pm

Not so Virgin anymore with the way Trump has #$!&@ them! Amirite?
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby JFLNYC » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:33 pm

thephan wrote:
JFLNYC wrote:It’s no coincidence that blue, coastal states would take the greatest hit from a Republican tax reform proposal. As they say, it’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

I’m all for making it easier for younger people to buy a home. What’s holding them back is primarily wage stagnation and college debt. It would be preferable to address those issues. Taking away a significant portion of the wealth of older homeowners who have accumulated that wealth over many years seems like a particularly unfair and draconian way to address the issue.


Right, that "feature" was also made clear with the last go at healthcare. Punishing the economic engines of the country is a bizarre priority, except that it is a feel good for the interior "base". Clearly I am biased living in the mid-Atlantic, so I am a target of these types of legislation, but what is the gain? There is a whiff of oligarchy to this where the poor remain poor, and the possible, nominal competition is reconciled.


I’m sure there’s more than a little political spite to it but there are also other benefits to the Pubs. First, it would affect many in the 1% without affecting the 0.1% much, if at all, allowing the Pubs to claim they’re taxing the rich. Second, it will decrease the wealth of the “lower” one percenters thereby increasing the wealth distance between them and the 0.1%.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby pacino » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:40 pm

amazing headline:

As US House weighs $36.5 billion disaster relief, Trump slams Puerto Rico

The bill includes $18.7 billion for the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s disaster relief fund. Of that amount, $4.9 billion is earmarked for loans to local governments to ensure that the cash-strapped Puerto Rico can keep government programs operating beyond Oct. 31.

Other funds include $576.5 million for the federal government’s wildfire control efforts. Some $16 billion would go toward the National Flood Insurance Program to help it cover claims after reaching its borrowing limit.

Democratic Representative Nydia Velázquez of New York, which has a large Puerto Rican community, said the relief package was “just the start” of federal aid to the island, where large areas remain without electricity or running water three weeks after Hurricane Maria made landfall.

Puerto Rico is burdened with nearly $72 billion in pre-hurricane debt being overseen by a federally created oversight board.

Velázquez said the funds earmarked for loans to local governments would assist Puerto Rico’s “liquidity crisis” and that steps must be taken to ensure that creditors are unable to access funds meant for disaster relief.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby The Crimson Cyclone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:53 pm

Facebook post by Robert Reich

This morning I phoned my old friend, a Republican former member of Congress.

Me: So what’s up? Is Corker alone, or are others also ready to call it quits with Trump?

He: All I know is they’re simmering over there.

Me: Flake and McCain have come pretty close.

He: Yeah. Others are thinking about doing what Bob did. Sounding the alarm. They think Trump’s nuts. Unfit. Dangerous.

Me: Well, they already knew that, didn’t they?

He: But now it’s personal. It started with the Sessions stuff. Jeff was as loyal as they come. Trump’s crapping on him was like kicking your puppy. And then, you know, him beating up on Mitch for the Obamacare fiasco. And going after Flake and the others.

Me: So they're pissed off?

He: Not just that. I mean, they have thick hides. The personal stuff got them to notice all the other things. The wild stuff, like those threats to North Korea. Tillerson would leave tomorrow if he wasn’t so worried Trump would go nuclear, literally.

Me: You think Trump is really thinking nuclear war?

He: Who knows what’s in his head? But I can tell you this. He’s not listening to anyone. Not a soul. He’s got the nuclear codes and, well, it scares the hell out of me. It’s starting to scare all of them. That’s really why Bob spoke up.

Me: So what could they do? I mean, even if the whole Republican leadership was willing to say publicly he’s unfit to serve, what then?

He: Bingo! The emperor has no clothes. It’s a signal to everyone they can bail. Have to bail to save their skins. I mean, Trump could be the end of the whole goddam Republican party.

Me: If he starts a nuclear war, that could be the end of everything.

He: Yeah, right. So when they start bailing on him, the stage is set.

Me: For what?

He: Impeachment. 25th amendment.

Me: You think Republicans would go that far?

He: Not yet. Here’s the thing. They really want to get this tax bill through. That’s all they have going for them. They don’t want to face voters in ’18 or ’20 without something to show for it. They’re just praying Trump doesn’t do something really, really stupid before the tax bill.

Me: Like a nuclear war?

He: Look, all I can tell you is many of the people I talk with are getting freaked out. It’s not as if there’s any careful strategizing going on. Not like, well, do we balance the tax bill against nuclear war? No, no. They’re worried as hell. They’re also worried about Trump crazies, all the ignoramuses he’s stirred up. I mean, Roy Moore? How many more of them do you need to destroy the party?

Me: So what’s gonna happen?

He: You got me. I’m just glad I’m not there anymore. Trump’s not just a moron. He’s a despicable human being. And he’s getting crazier. Paranoid. Unhinged. Everyone knows it. I mean, we’re in #$!&@ up to our eyeballs with this guy.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby jerseyhoya » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:56 pm

He is a talented fiction writer
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Eem » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:03 pm

jerseyhoya wrote:He is a talented fiction writer

When do you think someone of substance in the GOP actually does something here, JH
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby pacino » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:05 pm

SEIU endorsed Ben Jealous in the Maryland Democratic primary for governor. This is a pretty huge shift in their philosophy as far as which candidates they back. They have 'Bernie values' but endorsed Hillary because they wanted to hitch their wagon to who they thought would win...Jealous is not a sure thing to win.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Doll Is Mine » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:07 pm

How disgraceful is it to trot General John Kelly out there to lie for you? He claims that Trump doesn't want more nuclear weapons and has said "wouldn’t it be great if we could get rid of them all?"

:lol:
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Phred » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:14 pm

Doll Is Mine wrote:How disgraceful is it to trot General John Kelly out there to lie for you? He claims that Trump doesn't want more nuclear weapons and has said "wouldn’t it be great if we could get rid of them all?"

:lol:


Maybe he means that he could get rid of them all by launching them.
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Re: Tillerson says more on Trump in the politics thread

Postby Bucky » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:31 pm

Soren wrote:I feel like I should know more about this than I do (which is nothing).



I assume you've been in your house long enough that your 2016 interest put you on the 'itemize' side of things? And you probably use tax software?

If both those are true (even if the second is not): just for fun, open up the tax software (or pull out your paper returns and re-do some calculations) and zero out your mortgage interest paid in 2016 and see what it does to your balance due/refund. Just don't do it on a full stomach.
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