Conspiracy Theories: A Blog

Conspiracy Theories: A Blog

Postby VoxOrion » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:21 pm

All of us have our own conspiracy theory moments. There are little conspiracy theories ("I'd believe it if you told me JFK wasn't killed by Oswald", "The mainstream media favors corporations", "the mainstream media favors liberals", "the Plaintiff's attorneys are out to get us", etc) and there are big ones ("George Bush planned 9/11, after all, didn't Hitler burn the reichstag", "the Federal Reserve is run by the Masons", etc).

So what's the deal and why do we believe in them? It seems to me that while conspiracy theories have always existed, the Baby Boomers seem to have made it a regular part of society. I mean, who can blame them, they watched the president's head get blown off (queue Dennis Leary bit). Then there was the whole anti-authority thing, etc etc. TV shows and movies about conspiracy theories are huge, and this 9/11 conspiracy stuff isn't going to go away, I expect it'll just keep getting bigger.

I think it goes something like this:

1. Most people want to be seen as the smartest person in the room. Some people more than others, and they love to be able to say "You know, it's not quite like that..." or "did you know..."
2. Most people seem to think that believing something contrary to popular opinion makes them look intelligent (this is also seem in our culture of criticism).
3. Which all comes down to self esteem, pure and simple. The bigger the self-esteem problem the more likely the person is to insist a) that they do not have a self esteem problem and b) they are queued in to something that is "bigger than all of us".
4. When it isn't a self-esteem problem, it's more than likely a replacement anxiety. Either "I don't know where I fit in the universe" or "I have no control over the economy and I don't understand it so..." or "I don't want this person to be president and I can't possibly fathom that people disagree with me therefore there must be some other explanation", etc.

Discuss.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:26 pm

Men in Black is real.
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Postby The Dude » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:35 pm

I think some people are just naturally suspicious about a lot of things, and when they go online and find "facts" that confirm their suspicions, they're more likely to believe it.
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Postby dajafi » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:42 pm

It's the flip side of faith. In the face of the inexplicable (which encompasses a lot,of course or intolerable, people want to believe in something. For most, it's conventional religion; for a few, it's a different flavor of Forces Unseen. (I guess for some it's both.)
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Postby CrashburnAlley » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:45 pm

MTV STAGED THE KANYE/SWIFT JAUN
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:05 pm

CrashburnAlley wrote:MTV STAGED THE KANYE/SWIFT JAUN


I totally believe that.
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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:19 pm

My theory... fictitious entertainment (TV, movies, literature, etc.) makes things larger than life. So some people don't want to believe the simplle explaination of some things.

By no means am I "blaming" TV/movies/etc... that's what it's supposed to do, that's why it's entertainment. Literature needs to paint a flowerful picture and take you on a journey. But some people may have a difficult time (or refuse to) seperate the complex plot aspect of entertainment from reality. They think "whatever" just has to have a complex plot. Compared to entertainment, reality is boring. At some level, they turn that slice of reality into "entertainment".

That will be 5 cents please :mrgreen:
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Postby phatj » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:35 pm

Professional wrestling is fake
they were a chick hanging out with her friends at a bar, the Phillies would be the 320 lb chick with a nose wart and a dick - Trent Steele
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:41 pm

Google has a lot of information...and they are not entirely benevolent.
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Postby Barry Jive » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:56 pm

I don't know why specific conspiracies become more popular than others, but I think they're all borne from the idea that people want to believe that someone, somewhere is maliciously preventing them from getting ahead in life, getting to a place they rightly deserve. Conspiracy theories generally have the common thread that some person or group of people is doing something evil we couldn't stop if we tried, because those people are all-powerful and completely invisible. They also seem to go along with such mistrustful ideas as the Mean World Syndrome whereby people believe there is more bad inthe world than there actually is because they're inundated with negative images through the media.

In fact, there are very few popular conspiracies I can think of that don't fit these criteria, the most popular being that the moon landing was filmed on a set. I don't know where this theory came from or why, and I've never seen any attempt to back it up. And yet it remains a well-traveled myth.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:00 pm

The Orson Welles's broadcast of War of the Worlds was real, but the aliens hypnotized Welles to say he made it up and have been living among us since then. They are all employed by Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems.
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Re: Conspiracy Theories: A Blog

Postby Philly the Kid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:04 pm

VoxOrion wrote:All of us have our own conspiracy theory moments. There are little conspiracy theories ("I'd believe it if you told me JFK wasn't killed by Oswald", "The mainstream media favors corporations", "the mainstream media favors liberals", "the Plaintiff's attorneys are out to get us", etc) and there are big ones ("George Bush planned 9/11, after all, didn't Hitler burn the reichstag", "the Federal Reserve is run by the Masons", etc).

So what's the deal and why do we believe in them? It seems to me that while conspiracy theories have always existed, the Baby Boomers seem to have made it a regular part of society. I mean, who can blame them, they watched the president's head get blown off (queue Dennis Leary bit). Then there was the whole anti-authority thing, etc etc. TV shows and movies about conspiracy theories are huge, and this 9/11 conspiracy stuff isn't going to go away, I expect it'll just keep getting bigger.

I think it goes something like this:

1. Most people want to be seen as the smartest person in the room. Some people more than others, and they love to be able to say "You know, it's not quite like that..." or "did you know..."
2. Most people seem to think that believing something contrary to popular opinion makes them look intelligent (this is also seem in our culture of criticism).
3. Which all comes down to self esteem, pure and simple. The bigger the self-esteem problem the more likely the person is to insist a) that they do not have a self esteem problem and b) they are queued in to something that is "bigger than all of us".
4. When it isn't a self-esteem problem, it's more than likely a replacement anxiety. Either "I don't know where I fit in the universe" or "I have no control over the economy and I don't understand it so..." or "I don't want this person to be president and I can't possibly fathom that people disagree with me therefore there must be some other explanation", etc.

Discuss.


Ok, I'll bite...

As the person probably most associated by many of you as "a conspiracy theorist", as "extreme" as "anti-corporate" ...

It has to do with 2 things primarily --

1) The scale of things -- the world is so large, with so many people and so much going on, that is really really easy to get away with stuff -- and in that those pulling off the largest conspiracies are often governments, militaries, or the wealthy classes, they often can hide behind large resources -- and manipulate public perception or the legal system.

2) That so much has been exposed over time historically. Facts have come out.

Obviously something at the level of JFK, 911, Pearl Harbor, or the Trojan Horse, are bigger brands, than putting coke in coca cola or bad financial instruments around flimsy mortgages. There are many things that are intentionally done, pulled off, master-minded to the benefit of someone or some group -- that not everyone would use the term "conspiracy", in fact, in some cases you could substitute words like "good planning" or "good business move" or "good luck" depending on your value system and what side of the line you are on.

I believe that there are forces and interests. Interests are asserted and forces are at play. Its a reality of the world and its been a reality throughout history. I believe that people do bad things to protect or assert their interests. They lie, they cheat, they manipulate. So whether its a drug dealer down the block, a thai-women-slave trade ring, or big banks, big military, big food supply, big chemical ... that to lie to the public is common and we learn of it, with the rare cases that come out, when the occasional slip up memo or whistle-blower or tape recording gets out. We know how much hypocrisy exists. There is managing public perception and then there is what actually takes place.

So there is good cause to be suspicious. Does it mean every rumor/conspiracy is true? Or is true in the ways that it is presented? Probably not, but I suspect that there are far more things that never get exposed than those that do. There is enough proof, undeniable proof of massive conspiracies to know that its not un-reasonable to question and suspect stuff.

Many people hold on to beliefs based on their world view, and what they know to be factual. They are not always open to new facts, or facts that many would say require new interpretation -- I've seen people simply choose to ignore facts or the implications of those facts.

Look around. Whether its Clemens and Manny and Barry saying they never took steroids, or a CEO of a big polluter saying they never knew they were dumping toxic sludge in the river, or a govt. official saying we never knew this abuse was going on ... time and time again -- there are examples of the truth coming out, and even exposing some of the most self-righteous. I take personal joy every time a right-wing republican or facist extremist who hangs his hat on slogans like family values gets caught with hookers or gay prostitutes or with his hand in the til.

We know politicians are bought and sold. That's not paranoia. We know that there are idealogical extremists and class interests and people do not just sit back and let it all play out without trying to manipulate. We know the power of perception and the mass media, tv, print, internet to create perception. It's not a "theory" if its actually true.
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Postby The Dude » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:11 pm

That's kind of the point, the truth eventually comes out in those smaller scale "conspiracies". There are so fewer people involved in those cases, and someone eventually comes out and leaks the truth. The amount of people that would have to be kept quiet in a 9/11-type conspiracy is insane, the odds of not one of those respectable coming out with some kind of info is crazy small
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Postby FTN » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:16 pm

paul is dead
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Postby Philly the Kid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:18 pm

The Dude wrote:That's kind of the point, the truth eventually comes out in those smaller scale "conspiracies". There are so fewer people involved in those cases, and someone eventually comes out and leaks the truth. The amount of people that would have to be kept quiet in a 9/11-type conspiracy is insane, the odds of not one of those respectable coming out with some kind of info is crazy small


That may be so. I'm not saying I think 911 is the massive conspiracy or not. I will only say that I have MANY unanswered questions and I have heard too many reputable egnieering experts speak to some very improbable factors about the collapses. I've heard random bits n pieces that any on their own would seem inconsequential but that in aggregate, are troubling. I didn't raise 911 as an example of a conspiracy, I mentioned it as a high profile event that some do consider a conspiracy.

I'm sorry though, I disagree that most things come out. I think its just the opposite, most things do not. So many people lie cheat and cover things up. We only get the tips of icebergs ...
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Postby pacino » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:21 pm

It should be noted that regular people are part of the 'government'. The government is not some monolithic organization working for the needs of any one person/corporation. Most every conspiracy theory seems to forget this simple yet important point.
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.
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Postby Philly the Kid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:22 pm

One more thing I'd like to add, about why I'm so mistrustful of govt. officials. In the time of Reagan and Bush, perhaps in all times -- there is such a flow between corporate higher ups and govt. officials. When the EPA and FDA and CIA and whatever agency you want to choose, become filled with managers and execs who sit on boards or have been corporate execs ... it means that the fox is watching the hen-house. And those are a form of conspiracy.

I'm not scared of "big govt" if there is proper transparency and check points and that we are adhering to a high standard, like those espoused by Founding Fathers and the best of the best of minds today... but it doesn't take a lot to make the leap that if some guy used to be an exec at a company and is now a high up govt offiicial that is supposed to regulate that company ... we've got a problem, and its ripe for abuse. That's not paranoia, that's common sense.
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Postby The Dude » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:22 pm

I mean, you've shown the engineering links on here before, and people have shown you the links to the Popular Mechanics research and other articles. Showing other buildings that burn without collapsing isn't the same as engineers on Popular Mechanics explaining exactly how it happened
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Postby Philly the Kid » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:25 pm

The Dude wrote:I mean, you've shown the engineering links on here before, and people have shown you the links to the Popular Mechanics research and other articles. Showing other buildings that burn without collapsing isn't the same as engineers on Popular Mechanics explaining exactly how it happened


I'm not debating 911 with anyone here again. I have questions. That's all I'm saying. I don't believe the official story.

My points were not about 911, they were about the topic at hand, conspiracy theories and why people believe things they believe. I say there is good reason. Factual reasons. And that there are conditions that make it ripe for abuse and its not paranoid to be suspicious but rather -- prudent.
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Postby The Dude » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:26 pm

I wouldn't debate 9/11 on here with anyone anymore if I was you, either. Everything you showed was quickly debunked. I've seen the "information" you posted, it was ridiculous. But, understood if you don't want to chat further
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