the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby wwry » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:51 pm

we deserved this. we all deserved rod thorn redux wresting control of this team after years of our optimistic pain.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Shadow » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:51 pm

Youseff wrote:if the Silver stuff isn't true this is what I think

management realizes Hinkie has a lot of talent, but he's also highly flawed. he has questionable scouting skills, and it's possible his immediate executive staff has questionable scouting skills. beyond that, he's literally the most controversial GM in modern sports. players, fans, GMs, agents and the media largely have a distaste for him. the long term consequences of that have the potential to be very bad, and there is already a "college atmosphere" - which is not conducive to positive professional player development.

so the move definitely is a demotion, but you're not abandoning Hinkie's unique perspective and unique skill set. In fact, you're giving him the ability to learn from a GM who has skill sets that he has deficiencies in. despite what doofuses like Spike Eskin will say, mentors are a real and prevalent thing for accomplished business folks. best case scenario they find a working harmony and are able to combine their skill sets to make this a success. worst case scenario, the tailspin of negative publicity that Hinkie has fostered has already created enough damage that they'll need to scrap the whole FO and start over again.


He has questionable scouting skills? He picked the rookie of the year at pick number 11, then realized he wouldn't be the long-term answer, and out-scouted the Bucks who thought he was legit... and he is now coming off of their bench. So he basically won there on both fronts. Then he got a top 3 rookie of the year candidate with Noel, and will have another in Okafor. He found guys like Covington and Ish Smith, who no one around the league had any interest in at all.

It's still early to judge, but I don't see how he would be labeled as questionable. His success rate has been very good.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby heyeaglefn » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:51 pm

Eddie Jordan wrote:This kinda stinks now that all this is coming out. I don't want a 76 year old man rebuilding the team. Unless it's rigged now so we get #1 and 4, then sign me up. But seriously what the hell?

Yeah bringing a guy in a decade removed from doing this into a new fast paced, analytic NBA doesn't really thrill me. I get that he has done great things with team USA, but that is much easier then taking a team like the Sixers and helping them become a championship contender.

Never a good sign when his news conference he was asked what he would do and referenced a trade from 1988
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Napalm » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:52 pm

wwry wrote:
Napalm wrote:what is there to tear down? at best, they'll get rid of guys we want gone and hate like Hollis and Canaan.

by "tear down" i actually meant an inverse. wheeling and dealing all their hoarded picks and filling out their roster with the likes of spencer hawes and jordan crawford.

they're not bringing in Billy King here. and i doubt Josh Harris would go for that. He went through that cycle briefly before landing on Hinkie.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Wheels Tupay » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:52 pm

Colangelo is here to woo Coach K
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Now imagine that everything you ever imagined... is possible. - Hinkieology
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Eddie Jordan » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:52 pm

the way colangelo was talking, it was like yeah I reserve the right to blow all this #$!&@ up if I don't buy what this snot nosed punk kid is selling. Yikes
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby bleh » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:53 pm

Youseff wrote:
bleh wrote:
wwry wrote:
Napalm wrote:what is there to tear down? at best, they'll get rid of guys we want gone and hate like Hollis and Canaan.

by "tear down" i actually meant an inverse. wheeling and dealing all their hoarded picks and filling out their roster with the likes of spencer hawes and jordan crawford.

so the Youseff plan


man shut the #$!&@ up, you know nothing doofus.

stop bitching about hinkie supporters on every page then, i've never seen you give much of an idea of what the team should do so AFAIK it would be something like that
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby wwry » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:54 pm

*puts on flame retardant suit*
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby heyeaglefn » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:55 pm

Howard Eskin likes this way too much to think this was a good move.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby wwry » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:55 pm

real howard eskin tweet:

Howard Eskin ‏@howardeskin 5h5 hours ago

Jerry Colangeo (not sure if spelling name president of basketball operations of #Sixers
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Napalm » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:56 pm

Eddie Jordan wrote:the way colangelo was talking, it was like yeah I reserve the right to blow all this #$!&@ up if I don't buy what this snot nosed punk kid is selling. Yikes

he kept saying "i will have opinions". i don't think he's taking the power away, but no matter how things went, Harris could only look to Hinkie for answers and i think he wanted more perspective. Jerry said something like "these guys have never done this before". He's Gillick. This is what this is.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby MoBettle » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:56 pm

Shadow wrote:
MoBettle wrote:
PSUEagle wrote:
Shadow wrote:I don't like it. Any sign of abandoning the process... especially when this is likely the final year of a full-on tank, bodes bad news. They didn't really need Colangelo, they were going to improve next season, and naturally their public perception and perception around the league will grow as all the idiots start to shut the hell up about how disgraceful they are because they can't win any games. The Sixers and "tank gate" will have become yesterday's news, and talking heads will find another team to throw their misguided anger toward.

If they start signing a bunch of middle tier guys, and take a team whose season is already shot out of the Simmons sweepstakes, it will be a huge mistake. Especially since winning more, not only hurts their chances at Simmons, but hurts their chances at getting the Lakers pick as well.

And I laugh at all the media people talking about how great of a hire this is. The guy has been away from front office duties for decades. How the hell would they know? Remember, so many people thought Doug Collins and Rod Thorn were great hires too. Also, Ed Stefanski. The general public is moronic, so the opposite is usually true.

Lastly, I think using him to "lure free agents" is overblown. Free agents will come here for two reasons: 1) Money 2) They think they can win. That's it. Having some respected guy in the front office, is really going to convince Kevin Durant to sign here? Give me a break. They didn't need to throw what is likely a ton of money at Colangelo to do that, they could have hired someone else if they just wanted a figurehead to improve the look of the franchise.

To me this screams that Joshua Harris got cold feet, let the Howard Eskins of the world wear him down, and is abandoning, or partially abandoning the process. And I hate it.


Agree with all of this.

I'm having a sad right now, mostly because the 76ers were the one sports management team in this city I could envision building a great team that can sustain success for a long time. I want that more than a championship: an organization that's one of the very best in their respective sport that other fan bases are jealous of.

This was going to be the last year they were embarrassingly bad: no point in getting cold feet now. Really, the only thing that gives me any hope is that Harris signed off on Colangelo solely to placate Adam Silver: if they cut him a check but don't give him any real responsibility then it's not a big deal.

BTW, I think it's funny how everyone anointed Adam Silver as the BEST COMMISSIONER IN SPORTZ when all he's done so far is make the obvious/politically savvy calls. Color me unimpressed until he actually makes a real effort to address the lack of parity in his sport, starting with the institution of a hard cap and the elimination of artificially deflated max salaries: those are the two biggest reasons free agency is essentially a glamour contest that ~25 teams have no shot of using as a viable way to build a contender.


Well if this was going to be the last year of the tank, I'm not seeing the big deal? That means they were going to shift to a more traditional approach anyway.

I think this is great. Like I said last week, if Hinkie's rep was really turning to mud, then they needed to figure out a way to solve that. This accomplishes that for the most part while allowing the guy to keep his job.


You make a good point, but here is my fear and here is where I think Hinkie and Colangelo/possibly Harris will split, based off of just educated guessing.

After this season the Sixers will have Embiid and Saric back hopefully, and their draft picks(however many they end up getting). I think the next course of action for Hinkie would be to try to lure a mega free agent like Durant, or try to swing a trade for a superstar. If those options failed, I think he would sit on the cash, play his young guys, let them develop and naturally progress(and improve) and try again the following offseason.

I think the latter is where Colangelo and Hinkie will be divided. If that fails, I think Colangelo and/or Harris will want them to start signing middle tier free agents to push them into 40 win, 8th seed class because they are just tired of being labeled as a joke. Where Hinkie would rather they jump to, say, 30-35 wins, improve, but still be in the lottery. I would much rather do the latter, in this instance. Trying to push for 40+ wins too soon will hurt your cap and progress things just a touch sooner than they need to be.


This team has such little salary committed at this point that it could sign several free agents and still be perfectly fine cap wise. Even with the first round picks, this team should have ~$50M in cap space next summer.

Also 30-35 wins is in the same limbo land as 40 wins for me so personally I'd rather they try to make the playoffs. If you're not tanking you should be trying to make the playoffs.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby pacino » Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:58 pm

heyeaglefn wrote:Howard Eskin likes this way too much to think this was a good move.

This is true
thephan wrote:pacino's posting is one of the more important things revealed in weeks.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby pacino » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:00 pm

Werthless wrote:I'm going to wait until there is a roster move or two before I jump to conclusions. Until then, I assume they are bringing in Colangelo to woo agents of future free agents.

Sane take. Not allowed.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Youseff » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:01 pm

bleh wrote:
Youseff wrote:
bleh wrote:
wwry wrote:
Napalm wrote:what is there to tear down? at best, they'll get rid of guys we want gone and hate like Hollis and Canaan.

by "tear down" i actually meant an inverse. wheeling and dealing all their hoarded picks and filling out their roster with the likes of spencer hawes and jordan crawford.

so the Youseff plan


man shut the #$!&@ up, you know nothing doofus.

stop bitching about hinkie supporters on every page then, i've never seen you give much of an idea of what the team should do so AFAIK it would be something like that


I dunno what to tell you. I have said like a million times that I have a distaste for 3 years of purposefully putting a D-League roster on the court, who ever you are. there is a myriad of options that exist between putting a 19 year old d-league roster and the court and signing Spencer Hawes and Jordan Crawford in an attempt to create some mid-tier team. those aren't the only two variables in the world. I've said like 2 million times you should draft well, create a good environment and sign good free agents. I've said like 2 million times I prefer the Rockets/Warriors/Odom era Heat/etc model. I dont read your mediocre posts really so I'm not sure what your perspective is.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Napalm » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:01 pm

pacino wrote:
heyeaglefn wrote:Howard Eskin likes this way too much to think this was a good move.

This is true

this is because Jerry addressed him as Howard and answered all of his questions politely. Eskin has new access to the Sixers. I can't wait until he turns on him.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Eddie Jordan » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:03 pm

He made some prett direct remarks about possibly altering the process, and Harris about speeding it up. I'll probably be devastated if we waited this long for them to pull a Joe Dumars on us. Man I have a bad feeling, bringing in old people is never something I want with my sports franchises
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Youseff » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:04 pm

Shadow wrote:
Youseff wrote:if the Silver stuff isn't true this is what I think

management realizes Hinkie has a lot of talent, but he's also highly flawed. he has questionable scouting skills, and it's possible his immediate executive staff has questionable scouting skills. beyond that, he's literally the most controversial GM in modern sports. players, fans, GMs, agents and the media largely have a distaste for him. the long term consequences of that have the potential to be very bad, and there is already a "college atmosphere" - which is not conducive to positive professional player development.

so the move definitely is a demotion, but you're not abandoning Hinkie's unique perspective and unique skill set. In fact, you're giving him the ability to learn from a GM who has skill sets that he has deficiencies in. despite what doofuses like Spike Eskin will say, mentors are a real and prevalent thing for accomplished business folks. best case scenario they find a working harmony and are able to combine their skill sets to make this a success. worst case scenario, the tailspin of negative publicity that Hinkie has fostered has already created enough damage that they'll need to scrap the whole FO and start over again.


He has questionable scouting skills? He picked the rookie of the year at pick number 11, then realized he wouldn't be the long-term answer, and out-scouted the Bucks who thought he was legit... and he is now coming off of their bench. So he basically won there on both fronts. Then he got a top 3 rookie of the year candidate with Noel, and will have another in Okafor. He found guys like Covington and Ish Smith, who no one around the league had any interest in at all.

It's still early to judge, but I don't see how he would be labeled as questionable. His success rate has been very good.


Ish Smith had gotten major minutes on playoff teams before the Sixers. look it up. you're wayyyy off there. He found a gem in Cov for sure.

MCW would have gotten like 10-20 minutes a game on most other teams in the NBA and wouldn't have won ROY. he won b/c we played a system suited to his style and strengths, but he's really not that good. Hinkie is ultimately responsible for drafting a guy that's not that good. I'm cool with the Lakers trade, but that's not really speaking to his scouting skills.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Youseff » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:06 pm

Eddie Jordan wrote:He made some prett direct remarks about possibly altering the process, and Harris about speeding it up. I'll probably be devastated if we waited this long for them to pull a Joe Dumars on us. Man I have a bad feeling, bringing in old people is never something I want with my sports franchises


Dumars won a title as GM and Gillick won a WS as an old guy.
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Re: the Fresh Prince of Wells Fargo: a 76ers Chronicle

Postby Houshphandzadeh » Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:06 pm

you know Odom was only on the heat one year, right
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