Phils acquire Kyle Lohse for Matt Maloney

Postby PSUPhilliesPhan » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:08 pm

I don't hate it, what is Lohse's contract situation?
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Postby mozartpc27 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:08 pm

I suspect bullpen "help" of some sort or another is also on the way, and that Michael Bourn may not be permitted to unpack his stuff in Chicago.
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Postby Trent Steele » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:09 pm

PSUPhilliesPhan wrote:I don't hate it, what is Lohse's contract situation?


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Postby 21McBride » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:10 pm

usctrojans31 wrote:I would love to see his ERA by inning


http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=lohseky01&year=2007
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Postby smitty » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:10 pm

FTN wrote:My feelings on this. It's a good move. Lohse has been inconsistent this season, he's thrown a number of awesome games, and a number of turds. If we can get 7 good starts and 3 bad ones from him, we've got a good chance to go 8-2 in those starts, based on our offense. When he's on his game, his stuff is better than Kendrick's and better than Durbin's.

The big thing is, Maloney isn't an awesome prospect. He lacks velocity, his stuff is average, and his secondary pitches are average. I love statistics and use them extensively to look at minor league track records, but a guy with an 87 mph fastball and fringe curve/change probably isn't going to light the National League on fire. In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Zach Duke. Ask Pittsburgh how well that worked out.

The last time we traded with the Reds for a starter, we got Cory Lidle. No one was really impressed with that deal, and Lidle almost got us to the playoffs.


I agree with what you say for the most part. Lidle was a sinker ball guy and Lohse is a fly ball pitcher and that's a pretty big difference. But Lohse is a young guy and he throws realtively hard with a couple of OK secondary pitches. I think it's not just this season that he has pitched a few really good games a few really bad ones. He gives you a quality start about 50% of the time I guess and that isn't so bad for a 4th/5th starter.

The Phillies had good luck with both Lidle and Moyer so let's hope they get the hat trick here. I don't think Lohse is a Paul Abbott, for example. He's an OK pitcher who might be able to throw some good games over the next two months. And giving up Maloney isn't a huge price.
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Postby FTN » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:11 pm

Here's something else to consider.

Cinci has the 28th best Defensive Efficiency in baseball. Philadelphia isn't THAT much better at 20th, but a few more plays made per game could make a difference.

Also, check this out

Analysis of Lohse's whiff rates on his pitches

Basically, if DUBEE gets him to stop throwing his curveball, he could be an above average pitcher.
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Postby usctrojans31 » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:11 pm

21McBride wrote:
usctrojans31 wrote:I would love to see his ERA by inning


http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/psplit.cgi?n1=lohseky01&year=2007


Thanks. I certainly take that back, he has first inning problems
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Postby MarkdlV » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:11 pm

kenrosenthal wrote:Gillick has to be working on something else. Lohse cannot be it


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Postby JayBallz » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:20 pm

Ha- Eskin says, no one at this level has heard of Matt Maloney. I don't even know what "this level" means, but come on. Eskin used to hate on Victorino regularly too. He has NO clue about baseball prospects.

Maloney was liked. Hopefully, Lohse can help the squad.

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Postby Eem » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:22 pm

FTN wrote:Here's something else to consider.

Cinci has the 28th best Defensive Efficiency in baseball. Philadelphia isn't THAT much better at 20th, but a few more plays made per game could make a difference.

Also, check this out

Analysis of Lohse's whiff rates on his pitches

Basically, if DUBEE gets him to stop throwing his curveball, he could be an above average pitcher.


This is really interesting stuff.

It seems like he's a candidate for a cut fastball or something of the sort.
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Postby dajafi » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:24 pm

FTN wrote:Also, check this out

Analysis of Lohse's whiff rates on his pitches

Basically, if DUBEE gets him to stop throwing his curveball, he could be an above average pitcher.


I just wanted to underline this. Really cool short analysis, and grounds for hope that this might work out.

If you'd asked me a day ago whether the Phils should trade Matt Maloney for Kyle Lohse, I'd probably have expressed a wish to ship a lesser prospect. But as FTN and others note, MM was not one of our best arms, and there's reason to think Lohse is a decent gamble. Though I get and agree with the "meh," reaction, this is probably better than nothing.
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Postby ReadingPhilly » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:25 pm

not a terrible move if he can be slightly above average like he has been.

i expect this to be the last move the phils make.
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Postby smitty » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:28 pm

FTN wrote:Here's something else to consider.

Cinci has the 28th best Defensive Efficiency in baseball. Philadelphia isn't THAT much better at 20th, but a few more plays made per game could make a difference.

Also, check this out

Analysis of Lohse's whiff rates on his pitches

Basically, if DUBEE gets him to stop throwing his curveball, he could be an above average pitcher.


Since Lohse is a flyball pitcher, how does the Phillies OF defense compare to the Cincy OF? I'd guess the Phils are better especially when they go Bourn, Rowand and Vic.
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Postby Trent Steele » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:29 pm

Loshe gave up 22 ER in 19 IP against AL teams. Not so bad against NL. 45 ER in 109 IP (3.72 ERA).
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Postby Phan In Phlorida » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:29 pm

stevemc wrote:Why this has meh written all over it - if you look at the impact for THIS season - Lohse seems to give you the same as (what some wanted to trade Bourn for) Anthony Reyes

Reyes - 70 IP, 6.37K/9, 1.34 WHIP, .771 OPS

Lohse - 131 IP, 5.47 K/9, 1.34 WHIP, .773 OPS

Although Reyes has the better K rate - they're basically doing the same thing and I'd much rather give up a Maloney than Bourn.


Myself, I'd much rather Reyes. Reyes is young, pre-arb, and has the stuff to be a top of the rotation major league starter (a potential star). Lohse is a rental, unless the Phils extend (FA after this season), and unless there were cash considerations, the Phils are on the hook for the pro-rated portion of his 2007 salary of 4.2 mil. Also, I don't like what his last name spells when you take away the "h" :mrgreen: :wink:
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Postby milton bernard thompson » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:29 pm

somebody email that link to dubee
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Postby CFP » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:30 pm

FTN, could you explain a little bit about how Lohse's DERA could be so close to his NRA? Is this normal?
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Postby stevemc » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:30 pm

FTN wrote:Here's something else to consider.

Cinci has the 28th best Defensive Efficiency in baseball. Philadelphia isn't THAT much better at 20th, but a few more plays made per game could make a difference.

Also, check this out

Analysis of Lohse's whiff rates on his pitches

Basically, if DUBEE gets him to stop throwing his curveball, he could be an above average pitcher.


Thanks for the share. Hopefully Cole & Moyer have some friendly change-up advice for Lohse.
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Postby ReadingPhilly » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:32 pm

Trent Steele wrote:Loshe gave up 22 ER in 19 IP against AL teams. Not so bad against NL. 45 ER in 109 IP (3.72 ERA).


got this from another site, didn't check the accuracy

NL-only numbers are 112.7 IP, 1.23 WHIP, 3.59 ERA, 5.52 K/9, 1.92 BB/9, 0.88 HR/9
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Postby CFP » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:34 pm

Lohse's .270 BABIP at GAB this year scares me a little bit
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