The smoke has cleared and the mirror is broken.

The smoke has cleared and the mirror is broken.

Postby Uncle Milty » Thu Aug 02, 2007 6:20 am

Jamie Moyer is D-U-N done.

Now for the encouraging news. His performance incentives are likely reached this season making his '08 salary $5.5M instead of the $3.5M guaranteed. Wait, it gets better. Knowing the loyalty of the Phillies organization Moyer surely gets 30 starts next season, logs 185 innings and earns another $1.5M for a grand total salary of $7M in '08.

A hefty sum for an ineffective pitcher and part-time coach.
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Postby Bob Loblaw » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:02 am

He pitched 7 innings of 0 ER ball last week. Give him a few more starts like last nights before you stick a fork in him.
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Postby Uncle Milty » Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:43 am

Preceded by giving up 4, 10, 5 and 4.
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Postby LoneStarPhan » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:19 am

The Phillies went into the ninth tied 4-4. We were in the game and lost it in the ninth, after Moyer was gone. He had nothing to do with leaving the bases loaded in the top of the ninth and in giving up a run on two wild pitches in the bottom of the ninth.

No question, he is not the pitcher he was a few years ago, but he is keeping us in games.

We dropped to 4 games behind the Mets. I am not ready to throw in the towel yet.
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Postby GunbladeVIII » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:27 am

Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.
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Postby BigEd76 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:54 am

GunbladeVIII wrote:...which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Carlos Ruiz says hi
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Postby FTN » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:00 am

GunbladeVIII wrote:Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Interesting....
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Postby GunbladeVIII » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:05 am

FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Interesting....


Disclaimer 1: Only heard it on radio, didn't see it.

Disclaimer 2: I'm generally frustrated with everything Myers and what I see as a stupid decision to keep him in the bullpen.
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Postby Trent Steele » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:06 am

BigEd76 wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:...which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Carlos Ruiz says hi


Carlos Ruiz on the Road this year:

.211 .265 .293 .558, 5 GIDP, 0 HR

eeewww
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Postby FTN » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:20 am

GunbladeVIII wrote:
FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Interesting....


Disclaimer 1: Only heard it on radio, didn't see it.

Disclaimer 2: I'm generally frustrated with everything Myers and what I see as a stupid decision to keep him in the bullpen.


The ball hit to Werth was catchable. Not if Burrell were in there, but if Bourn/Any OF with speed were there. The ball was in and out of his glove. He catches that, the inning is over.

The team cannot move Myers to the rotation when he's not capable of throwing his cutter. It's a moot point.
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Postby Trent Steele » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:22 am

FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:
FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Interesting....


Disclaimer 1: Only heard it on radio, didn't see it.

Disclaimer 2: I'm generally frustrated with everything Myers and what I see as a stupid decision to keep him in the bullpen.


The ball hit to Werth was catchable. Not if Burrell were in there, but if Bourn/Any OF with speed were there. The ball was in and out of his glove. He catches that, the inning is over.

The team cannot move Myers to the rotation when he's not capable of throwing his cutter. It's a moot point.


According to Wheels, he threw at least 2 cutters last night. Then again Wheels is a douchebag.
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Postby jemagee » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:22 am

I wonder if it makes a difference that if Burrell was in the game, because he's slower, there's no dive and maybe the 'double' turns out to be a single?
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Postby FTN » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:37 am

Trent Steele wrote:
FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:
FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Interesting....


Disclaimer 1: Only heard it on radio, didn't see it.

Disclaimer 2: I'm generally frustrated with everything Myers and what I see as a stupid decision to keep him in the bullpen.


The ball hit to Werth was catchable. Not if Burrell were in there, but if Bourn/Any OF with speed were there. The ball was in and out of his glove. He catches that, the inning is over.

The team cannot move Myers to the rotation when he's not capable of throwing his cutter. It's a moot point.


According to Wheels, he threw at least 2 cutters last night. Then again Wheels is a douchebag.


I saw one possible, and that was the pitch Kendall waived at like a girl. Then again, it was Kendall batting, he does swing at pitches 2 feet outside without movement.
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Postby usctrojans31 » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:25 am

FTN wrote:
Trent Steele wrote:
FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:
FTN wrote:
GunbladeVIII wrote:Hasn't been good lately, but I find it a little unfair to call him done after a game which Brett Myers literally singlehandedly lost.


Interesting....


Disclaimer 1: Only heard it on radio, didn't see it.

Disclaimer 2: I'm generally frustrated with everything Myers and what I see as a stupid decision to keep him in the bullpen.


The ball hit to Werth was catchable. Not if Burrell were in there, but if Bourn/Any OF with speed were there. The ball was in and out of his glove. He catches that, the inning is over.

The team cannot move Myers to the rotation when he's not capable of throwing his cutter. It's a moot point.


According to Wheels, he threw at least 2 cutters last night. Then again Wheels is a douchebag.


I saw one possible, and that was the pitch Kendall waived at like a girl. Then again, it was Kendall batting, he does swing at pitches 2 feet outside without movement.


But he is IMPOSSIBLE to strikeout according to the infallible Chris Wheeler
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Postby traderdave » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:37 am

#1 - On the Werth play; he had the ball in his glove, the impact of hitting the ground knocked it out. Stuff like that happens.

#2 - Romero needs to learn how to throw strikes or go learn how to drive a truck.

#3 - You wanna talk about somebody who is losing his gleam, lets talk about Carlos Ruiz; hasn't homered since May 15th and has a big 18 RBI since that same date covering 46 games.

#4 - With regard to Moyer, he was definitely leaving stuff over the plate last night but of Chicago's nine hits off him, maybe two were actually hit hard.

Very winable game last night, it just didn't work out. We'll get 'em back today!
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Postby CFP » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:39 am

Ruiz is probably one of the worst approach hitters I have ever seen. He shows absolutely no plate presence, is not willing to take a strike, and seems to have no idea what the clear goal is when he's at the plate. I know a lot of people like Ruiz but whenever he comes up I know if I leave the room for a second I'll miss his at-bat because it's usually over in one or two pitches. I would have no problem trading Ruiz this offseason for some help elsewhere (bullpen) and trying to get a vet catcher. Then again I don't know who's out there, but to me Ruiz just doesn't strike me as a true every day major league player.
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Postby FTN » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:48 am

Ruiz has been awful for the better part of two months. The thing is, he's probably worn down at this point. He was always playing partial seasons in the minors, whether it be an injury or something else, and often would DH at times and not catch. He's been the primary catcher so far, through 100 games of the season, and is probably winded.

Ruiz has 16 non-intentional walks in 274 PA, which equates to a walk in 5.8% of his plate appearances....that's not good enough. He's averaging 3.6 pitches per PA. Coste has drawn 3.9 pitches per PA, Barajas also at 3.9. Roddy has drawn 18 non-intentional walks in 141 PA's, or in 12.8% of his PA's. Last year he drew 17 in 371 PA's.

At this point, I think they seriously just need to use a rotation system. Have Coste catch Hamels, Barajas catch Eaton, Ruiz catch Moyer, Coste catch Lohse, Barajas catch Kendrick, and the Coste back to Hamels. If you're carrying 3 catchers, doesn't it make sense to keep them fresh and rotate as opposed to burning one guy out (Ruiz) while the other two rot on the bench?
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Re: The smoke has cleared and the mirror is broken.

Postby philliesphhan » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:02 pm

Uncle Milty wrote:Jamie Moyer is D-U-N done.

Now for the encouraging news. His performance incentives are likely reached this season making his '08 salary $5.5M instead of the $3.5M guaranteed. Wait, it gets better. Knowing the loyalty of the Phillies organization Moyer surely gets 30 starts next season, logs 185 innings and earns another $1.5M for a grand total salary of $7M in '08.

A hefty sum for an ineffective pitcher and part-time coach.


# 2008 salary increases to:

* $4.5M with 170 IP in 2007
* $5.5M with 180 IP in 2007


there's still time to pull the plug

I agree with FTN about Carlos. He's become ineffective from being used a lot. Before Coste started catching some, Carlos was starting 80%+ of games.
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Postby TenuredVulture » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:05 pm

It's going to haunt us. Year after year after year, the Phillies simply are not bad enough to be sellers, and thus they hold on to players like Moyer who at the very least could have been a salary dump at deadline, and might have even netted a prospect or too. I would guess that a few weeks ago, a Moyer/Rowand package would have brought back a decent return.

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Postby traderdave » Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:05 pm

FTN wrote:Ruiz has been awful for the better part of two months. The thing is, he's probably worn down at this point. He was always playing partial seasons in the minors, whether it be an injury or something else, and often would DH at times and not catch. He's been the primary catcher so far, through 100 games of the season, and is probably winded.

Ruiz has 16 non-intentional walks in 274 PA, which equates to a walk in 5.8% of his plate appearances....that's not good enough. He's averaging 3.6 pitches per PA. Coste has drawn 3.9 pitches per PA, Barajas also at 3.9. Roddy has drawn 18 non-intentional walks in 141 PA's, or in 12.8% of his PA's. Last year he drew 17 in 371 PA's.

At this point, I think they seriously just need to use a rotation system. Have Coste catch Hamels, Barajas catch Eaton, Ruiz catch Moyer, Coste catch Lohse, Barajas catch Kendrick, and the Coste back to Hamels. If you're carrying 3 catchers, doesn't it make sense to keep them fresh and rotate as opposed to burning one guy out (Ruiz) while the other two rot on the bench?


For the life of me, I can't figure out why Coste doesn't play more. As for Ruiz, it probably doesn't say much about him if he was worn down by the middle of May. Posada, Rodriguez, Barrett and LoDuca are free agents this year (I think). I can't imagine Posada not wearing Yankee pinstripes and I can't stand LoDuca. Rodriguez would go whereever the money was but he is old. Barrett might make a nice Phillie and he is easily the youngest of the free agent catchers.

FWIW, FTN, I don't know who your avatar guy is but he is no Erin Andrews :wink:
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